The Practical Marksman

Huskey and I both came up with the same conclusion from Bill's AAR. Maybe it is our comprehension that is piss poor.

I am Copy-Pasting Benjie Bates post from lessons learned over here because it is as good as Jamies' Synopsis and belongs here under the AAR page. As a learning tool it is as good as Jamies. Damn good job there Benjie.

These are the kind of posts we want to see here, that HELP a new competitor learn something.

Practical Marksman 2010

I wanted to take some time after shooting the match to gather my thoughts and write them down, here they are. This was my 2nd ever “big match” and my first Practical Marksman Challenge. I think it is very important to study the name and not forget after all this is a CHALLENGE much more than just a match.

Looking back I can say I learned A LOT. I was real apprehensive about going and shooting this match. I have 2 buddies that I shoot with a lot and if it hadn’t been for them I never would have shot the match. Thanks Mark and Jim. The biggest lesson I really learned was about being prepared. I was not at all prepared for this match. I knew it going into the match but I really just didn’t care, I just wanted to shoot the match and learn from it, and that I did.

First things first, own a 308; yes I am probably the only member here who doesn’t own a 308. So I ordered up a barrel last week and will have Dave at APA install it for me over the summer.

2nd get the right bottom metal, being cheap and in a hurry I picked up a used hs precision 4 rounder and ran that, it worked, but I would have been a lot better off on a few stages with having 10 round mags. Yes I got alot my shots off and it worked but I was more worried about loading under time and I didn’t put all my effort into the shot I was too distracted about trying to get the rounds off under time vs. taking the time to make quality shots.

3rd you have a sling use it. Looking back I should have slung up a lot more and got into a better position before firing, I would have been better off getting off 3 shots and have 2 or 3 hits, versus getting off all 4 shots with 1 or no hits and time to spare.

Know your dope, this was a biggie for me, I borrowed a barreled action from a buddy, bought 200 rounds of ammo, ran jbm number s went and shot a box at various ranges 2 weeks before the match made the corrections and re-ran the numbers, they were close but not exact. I should have put more practice time into building an accurate data card. Like I said before the barrel is ordered I plan on knowing my rifle and data like the back of my hand before my next match.

Study the conditions, so many times I got so wrapped up in finding and ranging the target, getting the dope, getting into a position that I completely forgot all about looking at conditions. I should have been studying to see what the wind was doing a little more.

I rushed into too many stages fired off the shots and had time to spare. I needed to take a few more seconds to sink in and get into a good position before firing the shot, time was there i just wasted it

Check your batteries, I was lucky enough to win a leica 1200 at a fall match, I played with it a bunch this year and used it hunting. I thought the battery would be good to go, I was having issues ranging targets all day Sunday I thought it was brush in front of target, that was part of it, but my battery was low and giving me issues reading the range, I found this out last weekend when I was having a hard time reading my truck at 90 yards.. Lesson learned change all batteries before a match.

Gear management, I think I did ok with this. Those RedTac Gear Ammo cards were invaluable. Since the match I went out and bought some extra pouches for the outside of my pack. One for ammo, one for range cards, kestrel, and finally one for a range finder. I think have a spot for specific items will pay off in the future. Before next year’s practical I am going to pick up a pouch for rifle mags and also have 2 or 3 pistol mags mounted on the external of my pack.

Handgun. I loved the pistol shooting. That was a blast. I had never shot a shoot house and then David’s deal was amazing. I really enjoyed that. I am going to get out and do some pistol shooting; I never knew how fun it could be. Goal: shoot more

Physical condition, I know this isn’t talked about much here but I feel an important factor. I will admit I got lazy over the past year and a half gained a few extra lbs. I finally had enough and got serious again this winter started running again and joined a local Crossfit affiliate. I am trying to improve my overall total body fitness. I used to be all about strength and lifting heavy weights but I am now transitioning into Crossfit and love it.
Check this for more info: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-crossfit.html
I could tell a difference, I was never tired one bit during the match and was able to keep my heart rate in check. So far I am down 15 or so pounds and definitely feel better and believe that being in better shape will help me to be a better shooter.

Practice, practice, practice. The biggest lesson learned, get more trigger time. We all have excuses.
The solution for me to going a local 70 yard range 2 minutes from the house; I never joined before b/c it was not long enough. Well I sucked it up paid my dues and ordered up a custom wood stock for my 10/22 that is a near exact match of my match gun. No excuses not to shoot once a week and also work on positional shooting and fundamentals. Like many the majority of my shooting is done off my belly or bench, it is easy and comfortable. I practice some offhand or positional a little but not enough, my goal is to practice until it becomes comfortable. I have read Huskey’s home improvement shooting 10 times and kept telling myself I should do that, but I never did. No I am.


Changes…..truthfully I can’t think of much I would want to change. The match was hard and humbling.

The only change I would ask or question would be moving the dinner to Saturday instead of Sunday. I know our crew was in a hurry to get out. It would have been nice to spend more time with fellow shooters and all those who made it happen.

As far as practice, I don’t think there is really a lot that can be done a day or 2 before this match. Sure it would be nice to confirm a zero or to see if our numbers were off compared to our home range, but to be ready for this match, practice must be done way before even the entry fees are mailed. This was and is a challenge; it took me shooting the match to really understand it.

Looking back, I finished about where I thought I would have. I am glad I shot the match but also mad at myself for not putting in the necessary prep work and range time before I left

Capt. Huskey and Bobby thank you again for putting on the match.


Benjie

Brother Kenneth,

Bill Prudden's first 4 pages of AAR were fine, excellent, great, the best, all those kind of words.
I liked it very much, he accurately described the match, (except for calling a USDA classified 3% swampy property as a swamp. He insults the other 97%.).

Bill's next four pages were what he wants, what some of us have seen before after each match he goes to. Those of us who have seen it before know where he is leading in the AAR when he says the RO's don't call wind or shots for the shooters, etc, and he proves it "after" the official AAR, like you state. We can probably write his wants list for him..
AND I mean no offense to Bill here.

He wants training during the match, and the opportunity to make corrections off guidance during the match... He said it very plainly in those four pages. And I was plain in my earlier post that he can go elsewhere for training.

I don't want to sound uninterested in what Bill wants, it is important, but in keeping with the PM Board's intent, I am way more interested in things like Jamie and Benjie have to say. They offer what we ask people to provide for people to learn.

None of those "want" comments are going to help a new shooter learn anything when you compare those "want" comments to both Jamie's and Benjie's commentaries/AAR's. WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE ON THIS BOARD. Excellent Job Jamie and Benjie, I'll say it again, please continue with those comments.

Where are your helpful hints for the new guys Kenneth? I KNOW you have a lot to offer with your LONG years of shooting and learning. I've seen your other posts on other places where you tried to help new guys, we'd welcome you do it here.

As a three time participant of The Practical Marksman Challenge, I agree with what Jamie and Benjie have said about Practical Marksman. I have come away each year knowing what I need to work on. It is up to me to put forth the effort and time to make myself better.

I would like to thank Bill and Bobby for all their time and dedication that it takes to put together a Challenging
match for shooters like myself to get the experence and knowledge.

Each year this match has taken place it has become a bigger and better shooting event. I really love the Challenge--it will
only make me a better shooter.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Regards

Mark

Bill an Bobby,

This is not the time nor place for this but, I'll say this. Every AAR I've wrote, read, or somehow been involved in always has a "Separation" between field action fact, and the writers personnal thoughts.
I know many times what is writen, is taken the wrong way, but the fact remains Bill P. placed the separation there, which is where I stopped reading, do to past traits.

My bad,... and it well end there.

For any of you guys out there who now think I am picking on Bill, after all, he did say he was going for his helmet, knowing this was coming...

Bill is a great guy, never lose sight of that. Bill is a dedicated shooter with limited time to practice. Bill paid to come shoot and then asked that his score not be included because he wanted to use the match for practice BECAUSE he has such limited time to practice.
Bill is going to keep coming to the matches and shooting because he LOVES shooting, but has work and family obligations he puts in the proper perspective, a sign of a responsible family man. I deeply respect that in Bill.
I have been in the same situation, having to balance work, family, and personal shooting time. I know how hard it is and was, and what the divorce cost when I chose less time with the woman.
I wish MORE people had the same work and family ethic that Bill has, the world would be a better place.
Bill is a very smart man, who accurately sees what is before him, as his first four pages of AAR show. He presents this very well.

But as many other people have pointed out, if you want to get better, you have to PRACTICE. And not at the match. Bill HAS to overcome this to be a better shooter.

What Bill presents as "wants" could be ONE of the best training tools for an individual when his "wants" are addressed by a trainer.

HOWEVER, the address to those issues would seem very hard on Bill if addressed purely on a "train to overcome" standpoint.

The response would put EVERY failure on the shooter where it belongs. The shooter must train to overcome ANY adversity to make a shot happen. The shooter MUST believe he can overcome the issues as well, or mentally he sets himself up for failure.

Bill does not have training time. Bill cannot overcome his issues without training time. Bill is stuck in his evolution until he overcomes that part.
Until then, Bill is Bill where he is now and no amount of RO/Trainer assistance during a match will make Bill a better shooter or give him retained lessons through repetition.
RO/Trainer assistance may give Bill higher points in the match and IF he got higher points, more personal satisfaction and enjoyment of shooting that he wants.

That is not training under match/stress conditions, you will always revert to your lowest level of training under stress.

In the past, I have copy-pasted several of Bill's AARs and his "wants" lists and started to address them from a trainer standpoint. Because they do appear extremely hard on Bill from a cold-blooded train to live standpoint, I deleted them, but the thoughts remained on what Bill needs to do. I have posted the training points he needs elsewhere in a different format that does not name him.

I hear some of your comments to those posts and see the success from those of you I know are using the information given. I know, with practice, Bill could have the same success some of you are demonstrating.

So we are back to square one with Bill's lesson plan for today, you have to find some time to PRACTICE what you "should" know you are weak in.

Until then, Bill, and anyone else in his circumstances MUST accept the present and its reality. Failing to accept present reality sets people up for failure in their endeavors. In my work, this can mean dead.
In a competitor standpoint, it could be considered losing, and to a competitor, losing is a bad thing. Losing to a competitor is NOT fun. If NOT losing is what drives you, you have to PRACTICE to get better. Funny how we keep coming back to practice...

If you compete against yourself, and your goal is to show improvement in set increments each week, month, year, you have to practice on your weak points, not the things you do best, and you have to figure it out on your own, not have someone tell you the best thing to do at that moment.
I have done this with my Snipers, "Hey, your NPA is off." Then we spent four to five hours on one guy showing him how to get into NPA, depriving the other nine guys of 4-5 hours of shooting time for them.
Next training, his NPA was still off and he shot like shit. Comments heard:
"Dude, did you practice what we showed you at home during the last month?" "No".
Other Sniper, "Shit, he didn't clean his rifle either, look at that rust!" Other Sniper, "Dumbass".
After more similar comments and a ass chewing from a supervisor to a wayward employee, followed by the threat of kicked off both the Sniper AND Swat team, this wayward employee found the motivation to practice NPA at home and now we see improvement. He did it on his own, not with people telling him on the range to do it.
This just kicks you in the head, YOU HAVE TO PRACTICE the right stuff, all the time, to get better.

There's more we could get into, but this is enough, you have to practice and if you can't practice for whatever reason, you have to accept what you get and drive on until you can change the situation to allow you to get that practice.

I keep working on the trainer response to Bill's "wants" and it all comes down to practice. Bill you have to find a way, thats the bottom line.

The rest of you already got the point, you have to practice.

Yes, I BEAT this into my guys to the point they have sleep disurbances over the words "did you practice this week" and the dread of what I am going to say next.

Nah, I kinda like the way he thinks better!

Just got off the phone with Leupold, it's logged in and they estimate 3 weeks to repair, and then I'll have it up for sale.

Hey Benjie, how did David's Deal go? I told you how I shot it, but didn't get a chance to watch you shoot it.

Jamie

it better than expected, i got all my rifle shots off and hit them, but i did miss a few with the pistol. overall i really enjoyed the stage, the first time i have ever shot a mover or swinger, it was a great stage

bc of that and the shoot house i am going to try a few pistol matches, i really liked that stage

thanks for the tips

The pistol shooting is a lot of fun, and it's a lot easier to find local matches than rifle. I started a year ago partly because of Brian Ellington.

If you liked the drop turner and swingers, do a youtube search for 'texas star'

We planned to have a Texas Star in the match but some of the others thought it was beyond the ability of our shooters with a pistol. I love the Texas Star and they are a ton of fun to shoot. We might do one next year, consider yourself warned.